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 Post subject: A cocktail for small calibers?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Ok everyone, In my .45's I can shoot just about anything and it'll penetrate and or expand in most cases. In my 9mm I use strictly hollowpoints for carry or other duties as personally I feel it should penetrate enough and expand in most cases. (I think I might try the Hornady Critical Defense for the 9mm.
In the LCP I am loading the Buffalo Bore 100 gr FMJ FN +p for penetration in the smaller caliber but I'm considering a "cocktail" of alternating the bullet above with a good quality hollow point in order to get expansion as well as the penetration. I'm considering either the Golden Sabres or the Buffalo Bore +p hollow points (they use a Gold Dot bullet).

Opinions?


“ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:17 am 
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How would you feel about an earlier generation hollow-point such as the Hydra-Shock. It won’t give you as much expansion as the latest generation of hollow-points, but you’ll get more than with a FMJ, and still get 12”s of penetration.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/90%20grain% ... -Shok.html


"Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." - The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once." - The Notebooks of Lazarus Long


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:28 am 
I am loading federal hst's in my 9mm's right now. The 45 I dont carry much due to lack of a good holster. However when I carry the flying ashtray shooter its packing hydrashoks.

Those are the only calibers I have on hand for carry guns right now.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:06 am 
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orangevale wrote:
How would you feel about an earlier generation hollow-point such as the Hydra-Shock. It won’t give you as much expansion as the latest generation of hollow-points, but you’ll get more than with a FMJ, and still get 12”s of penetration.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/90%20grain% ... -Shok.html


From other sources I've read the HS is over rated in smaller calibers and I am unsure about these results, even the BB which uses a Gold Dot HP and is +p rated doesn't have that much penetration, I think BB says about 10 inches for the HP.

This from BB website:

Quote:
3. Item 27C/20 is a 90gr. Speer Gold Dot (Unicore) bullet and is the only hollow nosed expanding bullet we trust to expand reliably, yet penetrate deep enough to be lethal on a drugged up, pain free attacker. It is traveling over 1,200 fps out of my BDA (Browning Double Action) with its 3.75 inch barrel. This bullet is truly bonded and will mushroom to about .55 caliber and not lose any weight, thus penetrating quite deeply in human matter. You should expect about 10+ inches of penetration in flesh and bone. We’ve utilized the very same flash suppressed powders that we’ve used in our two other 380 auto +P loads. If you like the idea of the extra big hole this expanding load makes in human flesh, we would advise that you load this bullet in your chamber, followed by a magazine full of our non-expanding loads. So, if the first shot does not incapacitate the attacker, your magazine is full of ammo that will, if you can put the bullet in his spine or brain from any angle. Note my “real world” velocities from my personal “real world” pistols.



1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel----1218 fps
2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1200 fps
3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1123 fps
4. Keltec---1100 fps


This is why I like Buffalo Bore:

Quote:
1. Item 27A/20 is a 100gr. HARD cast bullet with a flat nose. It is traveling over 1,150 fps out of my 3.75 inch BDA (Browning Double Action). We’ve used a flash suppressed powder for all three of our 380 auto loads so that you wont be blinded by your own gunfire if you have to shoot in the dark and since around 95% of all civilian shootings in America occur in low light, the chances that your own gunfire will blind you while you are trying to save your life, are good—we’ve eliminated this variable by using flash suppressed powder. We’ve also chosen a flat nosed solid bullet.
Quote:
The flat on the nose ensures that the bullet will cut/smash its way through flesh and bone and do much more destruction than typical round nose FMJ bullets. Round nosed bullets tend to slip and slide through matter, doing little damage as opposed to a flat nosed bullet. The flat nose not only wounds much more than a round nosed bullet, but it actually keeps the penetration straight and thus deeper. Notice the below velocities recorded from my personal 380 auto pistols. These are real world guns and thus the speeds are realistic and not exaggerated speeds produced from laboratory test barrels. What you see with Buffalo Bore Ammo, is truly what you get in the “real world”, where it matters. You can expect 20+ inches of straight-line penetration in flesh and bone with this load
. If you are worried about over penetration with this load, DON’T! You chose to carry a tiny under-powered 380 auto pistol and the trade-off is that you are now going to have to stay alive with that pistol and over penetration will be the least of your worries if you end up needing this gun to save yourself or your family.



1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel--- 1160 fps
2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1149 fps
3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1072 fps
4. Keltec---1061 fps


I shot some of the BB FP out of the LCP again today into an old grill propane tank at about 21 feet. It is a solid bullet so doesn't expand like a hollow point but it made one heck of an exit hole in the tank, a bigger exit hole by far than made with my 1911 shooting FMJ. The .45 made a fair exit hole in the tank, the BB made a large gaping hole.


“ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:58 pm 
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OK, here’s my thinking. If it were me, I’d be looking for an analog to the use of the lead wad cutter in the snub nosed .38. Again in my opinion, the first thing you should be after is penetration, you need get to the vital organs that bleed a lot. With the snub nosed .38, the earlier +P hollow points wouldn’t expand reliably even though they would penetrate. Thus the going opinion remains, you’re not going to get much expansion either way, so use the standard power wad cutters and gain faster between shot recovery times.

Your preferred flat nosed FMJ is +P. I’d be looking for a standard powered round that could make 12 inches. And then if I had a choice, I’d be looking for a bullet that exposed some lead up front (similar to a soft point rifle round) hoping I’d get some expansion.

Anyway, while I was looking for more bullet data I ran across this site. I know it’s Brand X, but this guy has been looking at a lot of .380 information.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB. ... 1199737660


"Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." - The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once." - The Notebooks of Lazarus Long


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:51 am 
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Orangevale,

Thanks for the info and link.
I have seen that and visited/read all the links before. If you go down the page a eay you'll see a link with a name something like "holy buffalo bore" and it has some good info. Everything I've read so far with chrono tests confirms what the company says, their results are real.

I don't have a chrono and I have no idea how or why the BB performed as it did in the shooting of the propane tank, I can only say that the results impressed me.
I picked up some BB 230 gr FMJ FN +p to try out of my 1911.

The only drawbacks I see with the BB ammo are that the recoil is horrendous and you must practice with it alot. It is accurate but follow up shots are a bit slower. The 2nd drawback is the price at over $1 per round.

There may be hope for a SD round that has adequate penetration with guaranteed expansion every time but I have not yet been able to get a hold of any Hornady Critical Defense in .380.


“ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:28 am 
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have you fooled around much with Hornady TAP? I've found it to be good ammo in my .40. Also got some in .308 but haven't had a chance to fire any yet.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:39 am 
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condition1 wrote:
have you fooled around much with Hornady TAP? I've found it to be good ammo in my .40. Also got some in .308 but haven't had a chance to fire any yet.


I haven't ried the TAP yet but have heard good things about it.


“ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:46 pm 
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got to get after it with the .308
worth every nickel!!


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